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Based on the WWDC preview of Panther, what are your upgrade plans?

1/1: Based on the WWDC preview of Panther, what are your upgrade plans?

Buy as soon as possible 797 (57.01%)
Buy after first bug fix release 204 (14.59%)
Wait and get it with a new machine 275 (19.67%)
No purchase plans at all 78 (5.58%)
Other? 44 (3.15%)
Other polls | 1,398 votes | 24 comments

Based on the WWDC preview of Panther, what are your upgrade plans? | 24 comments | Create New Account
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Longhorn killer huh
Authored by: martinx on Jun 23, '03 07:07:39PM

I definitely want to upgrade, but from the preview I don't see the nifty "database" features that were supposed to be integrated into the file system. Too technical to mention? Not yet finished? Scrapped?

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and piles?
Authored by: martinx on Jun 24, '03 10:02:20AM

Come to think of it, I didn't see piles mentioned either. Wasn't that supposed to be in Panther?

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and piles? (That's Exposť)
Authored by: tophu on Jun 27, '03 05:32:57PM
I think that the Exposť they were showing off is the implementation of the "piles" concept.
I could be wrong, but I think that's it.

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and piles? (That's _not_ Exposť)
Authored by: momerath on Jul 02, '03 11:45:39AM

You're wrong.

Piles were supposed to be some folder replacement mechanism or a cool way at looking at folders. Expose is about the parallel of that for a bunch of windows.

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Authored by: sjk on Jun 26, '03 03:07:53AM
Read about kqueue/kevent() in Panther Details on Apple's Web Site. This appears to be what's behind Fast Find in Panther. I'm not sure about any filesystem changes yet.

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Finder. SPEED please!!!
Authored by: biggles on Jun 26, '03 03:19:26AM

The one thing that really bugs me about Jaguar's Finder is how slow it is. I believe it's written in Carbon. Let's hope Panther's Finder is a lot faster. Two days ago I was doing multiple large (GB sized) copying across from a FireWire drive and this rendered my machine USELESS for doing anything else, even switching apps took forever. iMac G4 800MHz OS 10.2.6.

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Finder. SPEED please!!!
Authored by: malvolio on Jun 29, '03 12:08:03AM

I've seen estimates from Panther users that the Finder is anywhere from 30% to 300% (!) faster than in Jaguar.
Haven't seen any benchmarking to back up these figures yet, though.


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Finder. SPEED please!!!
Authored by: maclaxguy on Jun 29, '03 11:33:39AM

I have no solid benchmarks for you, but I have used a machine that is running Panther. Yes, the Finder is faster. That's putting it mildly though. The Finder is MUCH faster. In fact, it seems to me that overall, everything is running and launching much more quickly and smoothly.

BTW, Expose is the shiznit. It's worth the upgrade by itself.

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Finder. SPEED please!!!
Authored by: arglborps on Jun 30, '03 08:43:07AM
For the time being try Path Finder it's completely written in Cocoa and has quite a few features, that Apple's Finder lacks.

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Finder. SPEED please!!!
Authored by: cajos on Jun 30, '03 09:45:41AM

On my iMac 700MHz it is actually faster than the Jag ver. I checked the binary and noticed the new one is NOT Carbon / CFM app. Maybe Cocoa, maybe other (C++, etc.) but definitely not Carbon or old-world PowerPlant code.

The overall speed of Finder and Panther is well ahead of Jaguar. In this incomplete stage.

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Finder. SPEED please!!!
Authored by: Chris Haynes on Jun 30, '03 06:12:27PM

The Finder in 10.3 might be a Cocoa app as it is using the brushed metal interface which seems to only be available through the Cocoa APIs. And right-clicking on it allows "Show Package Contents", so...

I am usually wrong about these things though ;)


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Authored by: truhe on Jun 24, '03 07:50:23AM

what i see... there are not that much new features which i "must have". labels are nice, but i have them with a haxie and mail with webcore is nice. hopefully this will also come to 10.2-mail. what about themes and sounds, like os9 had? and what about a finder which does not use dsstore-files and is able do remember the status of a window? the new finder goes the explorer way: differentiate between the data (files, folders) and the visualization of the data (windows). this os not the mac way and i really have to think about upgrading when apple is not able to listen to its customers and implement a really nice way to manage files. the jaguar-finder is not a good way and the panther-finder is neither.

panther looks like a 2.8 and not like a new major release.

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10.3 or 11?
Authored by: lettertiep on Jun 24, '03 08:50:09AM

I found a strange thing on the Apple Website:

at the "panther sneak preview" site, Panther gets the version-number 10.3.
However on the Press photo's, the CD-label says "Mac OS X Version 11"


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10.3 or 11?
Authored by: lettertiep on Jun 24, '03 08:54:00AM

see here:,2334,59373-7826,00.html

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10.3 or 11?
Authored by: truhe on Jun 24, '03 12:02:14PM

since the first release of mac os x apple was unable to name it properly:

MacOS 9.0
MacOS 9.2
MacOS 10.0
MacOS 10.2
MacOS 10.3


MacOS 9.2
Mac OS X
Mac OS X 2
Mac OS X 3

Apple is using "Mac OS X 10.2" which of course means that I'm running version 10.2 of Mac OS X. This is obviously wrong. "Mac OS X Version 11" is also wrong.

While the current Jaguar version is "Mac OS X 2.7" or "Mac OS 10.2.7" the correct name for Panther would be "Mac OS X 3" or Mac OS 10.3 or Mac OS XI.

So whatever Apple means with "Mac OS X Version 11", "Mac OS X 10.2" - these products do not exist.

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10.3 or 11?
Authored by: comodin on Jun 25, '03 08:40:46PM

hehe, sure and ..

.. whatever you means with "Apple" - these company do not exist.

.. greetings from planet earth, who (i know) do not exist too ;)
-- Ludwig Wittgenstein

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Get it for Free
Authored by: aogail on Jun 25, '03 11:23:07PM
I'll just wait for Apple to send it free, thanks to my Student Developer account from Apple.

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Get it for Free
Authored by: babertocci on Jun 26, '03 05:40:26PM

Where does it say that student developers get OS updates for free? I signed up earlier this year, so I wasn't around for the Jag update.

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Nuttin' here ...
Authored by: Anonymous on Jun 27, '03 06:01:03PM
Never say never, but my inclination right now is that it will be quite some time before I purchase 10.3, if at all.

Mr. Jobs' programmers do good work. But unlike Jaguar, 10.3 doesn't seem to have many killer features that I'm dying to implement on my system, and the new Finder looks just flippin' hideous. I wish Jobs would get past the hard-on for metallic looks. It looks good for iTunes, iPhoto, and QT Player, but honestly, that's about all it really works for.

Expose looks handy, but I'm fine with the pervasive 'cycle through windows' keystroke and Show Desktop.

No Piles. No BeOS-like filing system, which sounded just really darn cool. And few other things that sound incredibly attractive.

And, not to mention, the choice-killer: not even the slightest shred of a discount for prior users. That makes it a really big question as to whether I'm willing to shell out another 130-frickin'-dollars for something. I wish Jobs would wake up and realize that it's more profitable to assist customers in keeping their OS up-to-date. Hell, even Micro$loth does that.

At this rate, waiting until Merlot is released is probably the more attractive of my options. I imagine 10.4 should be pretty nice, if it still runs on G3s.

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different thoughts
Authored by: davidnorton on Jun 29, '03 07:07:34PM

I respect your decision not to buy Panther, but here are my thoughts.

Brushed Metal

It is something you have to get used to. At first, brushed metal on a webbrowser (Safari) was really weird, I wasn't used to it, and I hacked it to display 'regular'. Now I'm back to brushed metal. But really, it's not bad at all. I actually like it -- a lot more than when brushed metal is turned off. I imagine it'll be the same with the Finder, and eventually Mail... there should be some guidelines though as to what should be brushed metal and what shouldn't be. Apple, non-Apple? :-) We'll see.

Panther features I adore

Expose looks really great... quickly find the window you need (or, "pick a window, and window"). I have not seen this or used it in person, but from what I can tell it is extraordinarily useful.

Fast User Switching will be really useful for my family, because 4 or more different people use the iMac and it would be nice to keep separate user accounts... right now it's just too darned inconvenient to have to quit all your apps, log out, and log in, anytime you want to let somebody else on the computer.

The new Finder looks like it has a nice feature in the sidebar (which I assume is collapsable), and the fact that it's Cocoa means it will be a lot faster.

iChat AV has some handy features... namely, voice chat. I didn't think voice chat would be that great ("really, who cares. I can just send IMs, which let me talk to more than one person at a time"), until I tried it. My brother and I were able to collaborate on stuff and talk without having to switch back and forth between applications.

Oher Panther features

Built-in faxing, currently, won't be too useful to me since my family has one of those all-in-one machines. But at school it might be handy to have a nice fax engine on my Mac.

Preview, Mail, and Address Book all have nice new features that I will probably come to love. FileVault looks like it offers decent security for one's files. As far as I know, Xcode will be Panther-only, and it is the next generation in Mac OS X software development. FontBook looks handy.

Panther, for me, is something I am looking forward to using, as it has a lot of enhancements and features I have been looking for. I'll buy it.

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different thoughts
Authored by: truhe on Jul 02, '03 06:35:09AM

of course there are guidelines which say what can be brushed metal and what not. apple is violating its own guidelines with using the brushed interface for a web and file browser.

i bought a mac to have a consistent interface. i changed nearly every app which let me do this to aqua, to get this consistent interface. a brushed finder is like.. .well... i wanted to shoot the programmer who is responsible for ds_store-files. the same for the one who is reponsible for this brushed interface. its ugly. i hate it. i don't want to have it on my desktop.

please... PLEASE apple, take care of you own guidelines. brushed metal for a dvd player.calender or calculator ist ok, but NOT for a web browser, a file browser, a mailer, an imaging program...

i don't think that i'll buy panther with this brushed finder. maybe it's a cocoa app and i can disable it with demetallifizer or "by hand". but if it's still a carbon-app i won't be able to fix this bug.

the worst thing is that many many app developers also begin ignoring the human interface guidelines. take mellel for example. a word processor with a brushed metal interface...


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Nuttin' here ...
Authored by: DavidRavenMoon on Jul 02, '03 10:50:50AM
I believe the Be OS meta system is in Panther... this was how they did the "live" searches. As far as Piles... who cares! Nothing I would bother with.

The main thing people are missing about this upgrade is the thing people have been complaining about... speed!

A friend of mine has the dev release of panther, and she wrote me this letter (oh yeah, and she's mainly a Windoze XP user.. she wont use OS X full time because it's too slow):

"It'll be sweet on your G4. My G3 350 with Panther runs faster than L's G4 450 with Jaguar. It's nice. I'm jealous of your G4. =] It's gonna be *quite* nice with Panther.

Yeah, we got the dev release. If I had a laptop I'd offer to meet you for coffee and let you play with it. =] It's got some issues, but is fun overall. (It won't let me copy files from my non-stock CD-RW drive without using the command line.)

Whee! I can't wait for it to actually come out. =] It'll make one of those 1ghz G4's fly, and it'll be *quite* nice on the G5's. Almost enough to make me wanna switch. =]

The expose thing is nice--better than the images make it out to be. (The images make it out to be a little more complex than it is, and give no indication of the speed. This is one of those areas where Apple made the right decision and skipped a lot of the takes-forever-eye-candy-animations. You press F9 (or another function key--fully configurable) and you've got all the windows of a particular type laid out on your screen almost instantaneously.

It's *nice*. And fast even on my G3 with a cruddy little video card. (Much better than Windows' alt-tab) I think you'll like it. =] Almost makes up for the lack of a Linux-like-pager! =] And makes up for the Dock's evilness. (There's a slight animation- the background gets a darker overlay that comes in from the sides of the screen to the center, and the windows re-size and re-organize themselves to fit onto the screen.. but that's fast enough to almost miss. And when you mouse-over each window in expose, it has a roll-over that consists of a transparent color overlay and a rounded box with the name of the window. It's really nice. I love it.

Tabs look different now, as do the login dialogs and some other windows. The design is starting to feel more solid and less eye-candy like. (Although it's still got that gorgeous aqua look)

Let's see.. what else.. Networking is a lot faster--accessing an actual Win share no longer causes the OS X equiv. of a BSOD if I try to disconnect without first double-clicking the icon to open the share (Yes. I've gotten those. I took a picture of one for proof, too!) (I used to BSOD whenever I'd mount a share then un-mount it without viewing its contents. Why? No idea.) I also no longer have that issue with it trying to default to 10-BT instead of making use of the entire 100BT bandwidth avail. To it. Copying to my Win box is a LOT faster. It also seems to be better about just copying things over and manipulating the names of most of the files to make them windows-compatible (ie: no non-windows characters.) Just a bunch of old problems I used to have..

Oh. The mouse-speed-up app you have to download to boost the speed of the mouse under Jaguar? No longer necessary. They give you more headroom now and you can make your mouse zip around quite speedily."

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Authored by: rgray on Jun 29, '03 08:41:32PM

Do 'we' know the ETA of Panther - something more precise than Apple's "later this year"? I need to hose my system and drive, and I'd hate to go to all that trouble only to have Panther show up the next day....

How far is Apple going to take this cat thing - are we looking eventually at, say, "Domestic Shorthair" or "Angora"?

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Some features not really covered in the keynote.
Authored by: scum on Jul 02, '03 12:52:49PM

I've been using 10.3b for a few days now as my default OS. Some things that The Steveness didn't cover (as far as I can tell):
Speed- this thing is faster. I believe most of the speed comes from optimization in Quartz Extreme.
Infinte Contextual Menus: You can put your hard drive in the dock and go down an infinite number of levels- previously ony could go down 3-4 levels.
Expose: This Steve did cover- but I don't think you can really appriciate how awesome it is till you try it. Something I would like is an additional feature that would keep background windows dimmed so the front application windows stand out more.
Network Browser: Totally revamped, faster, and cooler.
NTFS support: Absolutely nessesary for some people out there.
Faster Rendering of Brushed Metal: Makes those iApps a bit snappier.

Again- balance out the cost vs. benefits. It's a nice OS in pre-release form and I'm looking forward installing the final release.

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