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Where should Safari's tab bar reside?
1/1: Where should Safari's tab bar reside?
Other polls | 4,979 votes | 55 comments
Believe it or not.....
The only way I will adopt Safari or any other browser is to have the tabs on the side like in OmniWeb. I hated this at first (as I'm sure most on this board will) but now I find it indispensible. First, you can have many more tabs opened at once and still be able to read what's in them and second, the tabs are easily withdrawn into a drawer with one click if you need the real estate. I know this is probably not a popular view but after using OmniWeb for a few years, this is the one feature I can't do without!
Believe it or not.....
Try Safari Stand.
Believe it or not.....
SafariStand is great.
download: http://hetima.com/safari/stand-e.html Haven't tried it with Safari 4 yet, but it brings lots of features to Safari 3, including sidebar tabs with icon previews. (Also click-to-play Flash/Quicktime/etc, session restore, automatic download dated folder creation, all sorts of good stuff) It's free.
Believe it or not.....
The side thumbnail tab is what attracted me to OmniWeb in the first place. I never used tabs before. There useless at the top where most of the time you dont even know what they stand for since you see only a couple of letters. It's only after using OmniWeb for a while that I discovered OmniWeb was such a wounderfully geeky Browser.
Believe it or not.....
Totally agree. Anywhere on top with a reasonable number of tabs and the tabs are unreadable. The side bar eliminates that with a fixed width which is a major plus. Glad to hear someone else finds the same thing!
Believe it or not.....
I'm also hooked on OmniWeb. The side tabs are nice, but the one thing I can't live without is the way it restores things exactly as they were when I quit the app (or even if the app crashes) and I don't have to rely on SIMBL or Input Managers for this.
Believe it or not.....
Agreed, side tabs are one of the main reasons why I use OmniWeb. Other things Safari would need to get me to considering switching would be workspaces and per-site preferences / security settings.
I like the tab position, but....
Ok, I will admit it, but I really like the new position. I wish they would color the tabs like Stainless does (but with the Safari 4 position). I like for the window to take up as little real estate as possible, so I like the tabs as high as they can be. Safari 4 has the ideal location for me, whereas Stainless does not decrease the toolbar height.
On the top isn't the issue...
...it's the click-through behavior that makes it unusable. That and the minimum tab width seems to have been reduced, and the font size used for the common case of one "tab" should match the standard system font size. But these are fixable problems (should Apple decide to) - they have little to do with the actual move of tabs to the top, and that move saves both space and makes more conceptual sense.
Leave it ALONE!
The window title bar is just wasted space, putting the tabs up in the title bar saves screen real estate. It actually make sense there, and I hope the adopt this in Snow Leopard for ALL applications.
Leave it ALONE!
How the heck to you move windows?!
Leave it ALONE!
Same way you always did - grab the title bar and drag. Have you actually tried it?
Leave it ALONE!
Yeah, but it's really da** annoying when you mouse up to select a tab, and you accidentally move the window around the screen. ANNNNNNOYING.
Leave it ALONE!
Why would you be holding the mouse button down when doing that? Perhaps you're one of those people who drives with his foot on the brake too? ;)
Leave it ALONE!
Incidentally, I would like to know which Mac apps don't have a title bar.
Leave it ALONE!
...or which other applications have tabs. You mean you want Apple to force other browsers to put tabs on top? That wouldn't be so nice.
tabs
OS X apps other than browsers with tabs:
Have Options, but keep the bottom
Ok here's the thing about the top: it does save some space, but I believe the difference was calculated to be 22 vertical pixels, or between 2-3% of the vertical display on a 12 - 24" monitor.
Missing option
I think the pool misses an option. Tabs above but with a title bar (like chrome actually). But having no title bar is nice for the (small) screen estate gain.
Missing option
Exactly the way I think.
Missing option
I left out "better" ideas on purpose -- I just wanted to get a sense for those that prefer 'up' to 'down.'
Missing option
I agree that the lack of an "in between" option is more than a minor oversight. I refuse to vote for "in place of the title bar", because I really don't like that, and I probably won't use Safari if they keep that. However, at the top (as in, above the URL field, below the title bar) is a much more semantically logical place to put it, and I would vote for that.
Neither - On the Side
Things at the top and at the bottom are already taking up too much room. Screens have gotten wider, so let me put the tabs on the side, just like a three ring binder with tabs.
Neither - On the Side
Good points. I'll have to go back to using OmniWeb for a while and see how I like it.
erm.. kowalski?
name me one app in Mac that doesn't have a title bar. Well there's Stickies but the darker shade bar on top arguably is one.
erm.. kowalski?
Skitch.
erm.. kowalski?
Try activating Safari when it's in the background without accidentally switching tabs. You'll need to first make sure you're not clicking on a non-active tab; you can no longer just click anywhere in the "title bar."
erm.. kowalski?
I'd much rather activate Safari when it's in the background by command-tabbing to it, or clicking on it in the dock. Besides, when Safari's in the background, I can't see it's title bar anyway. Sheesh. All you guys with gigantic screens must never maximize your windows. But I still think this should be an option. Configurability is the key to making everyone happy, and I can't understand what it would cost Apple to put a few more radio buttons in the Appearance pane of Safari prefs.
Safari can't open the page .. because the page's address isn't valid.
Wow, the feed URL doesn't open in the new Safari... Luckily there is the "report a bug" button: Safari can't open the page http://feeds.macosxhints.com/click.phdo?i=4f5c7eef014fceaf2a806c3e72c26c1b because the page's address isn't valid.
at the top, but
There are two problems with the top placement. First of all, the fact that tabs expand all the way across means that you might (or I do) fail to notice that you have tabs open--especially during the learning curve. Second, the tabs blend in too well, so it's not obvious that they're there. The Safari 3 tabs have more contrast.
at the top, but
I agree.. I like the placement, but they need to work on the appearance.
I submit to on top
At first I hated tabs-on-top out of UI principle, and if I ever actually used the mouse to switch tabs or windows, I'd probably have actual problems with it.
Undecided, but sticking to it
For me, the jury is still out, but I'm mostly in the below camp. The saved space is nice, but it isn't enough to make a huge difference to me (it is what, maybe two lines of text?). I never had a conceptual problem with dragging tabs, and frankly I find the restriction of having to drag just the corners now, rather than anywhere on the tab to be a little annoying. I'm also finding that I frequently forget how many tabs I have open.
Interesting
I was about to comment that if you wanted to, you could create more draggable space by adding spaces in the toolbar, but for some reason, Safari 4 has no space or flexible space options for the toolbar.
Horrible
A pleasant user experience means windows behave the same throughout the entire OS. By totally screwing up Safari in this way, well, it's totally screwed up. And Apple really, really, really needs to stop letting things respond to background clicks. it's annoying, can be destructive, and slows you down as you search for a spot to click that will not cause a background click to happen. It's like they find more things to piss me off every month.
n/ a
I voted for the new positioning_
it comes down to space.
At first I wasn't going to vote, but just leave a comment saying it doesn't matter, we'll all get used to it either way- it's just a matter of what you're accustomed to. True mostly. But there's also some great logic in these comments, and I see it differently after reading them. The key issue seems to be screen real estate. I have 30" and 23" duals at work, so there's no problem there. But at home, I'm on a 15" Powerbook. Mostly it's no problem, but I'm constantly toggling toolbars lately to get more space. With the titlebar, toolbar, bookmarks, Google toolbar and tabs, active, about 1/6 of the screen is eaten up. So, the solution is to have tabs on top, right. NO WAY. That only solves 1/5 of the problem. Plus, without a titlebar, it's harder to identify cascaded windows. But the main problem is the lack of the little oval at the right of the titlebar in every Finder window, Mail, Pages, Firefox, etc EXCEPT Safari 4 (or 3). That's the quickest, easiest way to regain screen real estate. In Firefox, you could hit command-L and a URL field would come up if you need it. Same thing now in Safari, but to hide toobars, you have to click View and individually turn them off, or use multiple keyboard shortcuts. gross.
No Safari for me
Safari is good, but nothing compares to OmniWeb. I've been saying this for a few years now and again there's another example: Tabs!
Tab-less
I never caught on to tabs. I don't like the mechanism of picking the window you want to view via a broken series of snippits of text and favicons. Maybe I'm too much of a visually reliant person, but I find it quicker to see the whole window instead of clicking tabs until I find the one I'm looking for. I just use a hot corner to activate exposé and then click on the window I want. Seems quicker & more efficient to me. It does cause a cluttered desktop, I'll admit - just like my desk. ;-) But I guess if you like things neatly organized, then you're a tab advocate.
Option 6billion2hundred36
I put below the address bar, as that is as close as I can seem to find to my preferred placement anyway on Safari. That said I would love to be able to put the tabs above the status bar, like I can in Firefox and Opera. When I started using tabs, I let the bar auto hide, so things sliding down and changing where you need to click was a huge NO. Putting tabs at the bottom fixed that, now that I just leave the bar open anyway, I am just used to it. That and I like to be able to customize software to work how I use it, not how someone else says it should be used.
gets ugly quickly on windoze ...
i've not installed safari4 on my mac, just on windoze - dislike being forced to reboot for a lowly web browser. employed the hidden hack to make safari4 use safari3 tabs placement. if you enable that hack & you have the browser fullscreen, there's a line of garbage about 2-4 pixels wide under the chrome. if you resize the browser, that goes away. this happens on a stinkpad running winxp & on a virtual xp machine running in fusion. given it's beta code, apple may fix it, but also given it's the result of a hack & it's windoze, maybe they won't ..
Why not make it a Preference setting?
It's obvious that Apple has the code to do it either way and I bet it isn't too hard to do it on the side too. Why can't this simply be a preference setting?
Faster is better
I, for one, restored Safari 3's look and feel in Safari 4 and I am delighted, for one reason: it's faster than ever. Keep the tabs below. Ditch Coverflow. Forget top sites, I know what I want and how to get it.
Anywhere but the top
I think the top is the single worst place for tabs. It is simply too confusing. Is that a title-bar or not? Remember that one key aspect which is suppose to separate the Mac OS from everything else is usability. Tabs in the title-bar simply don't work well. On the left? Sure, the right? OK, where they used to be? no problem. Even the bottom would probably work well. The one place they shouldn't put them is where they put them.
Old position is better (for me)
I've stuck with the tabs on top for a week but gave in today and used the widely published Terminal command to put them back underneath.
OmniWeb
I have to agree, OmniWeb is the best browser going. Not only do I love the side-bar tabs (with 2 different views), but I find the site-specific preferences indispensable. Fast, feature full and very stable.
Window-top Tabs
I think window-edge tabs are a great idea. I know they aren't the norm, but thinking in best practices I think it works best...
Give user a choice
Adding a preference choice isn't rocket science. If someone says it's too difficult, fire him.
How long is this poll going to last?
I actually created an account to make this comment... This poll has been up since February 6 it appears... How much longer???
The old-style tabs are back
It seems the old-style won: http://www.apple.com/safari/download/ (requires 10.4.11 or 10.5.7).
Yep, The old-style tabs are back
It's sad they didn't include it in preference 'tho...
Tabs back down under, but...
Yeah that seems to be becoming the trend - just keep pushing whacky UI decisions on us, and then just when we're getting used to the changes, pull the rug out from under us, and whatever you do, DON'T give any options!
Tabs back down under, but... Almost!
By enabling Safari Tweak menu, it seems that you can revert the Tabs on top (for what it worth)...
http://pointum.com/safari-tweaks.html
Tabs back down under, but...
If you hide the toolbar (like with Cmd-|, being Cmd-pipe), then hitting Cmd-L will make it pop down to allow for changing the location. Hit Enter and the toolbar disappears again. However, if you don't hit Enter (but, for example hit Cmd-R to refresh, or Tab to get out of there) then indeed it no longer seems hidden... :-(
Tabs back down under, but...
It also appears that despite the tabs being back down under the toolbar, the oval to collapse the toolbar at the right corner has not returned. The lack of that standard UI functionality was my issue with the change in the first place.
I totally agree with everyone who thinks Apple has a nasty habit of insisting on "their way of the highway" when it comes to UI issues. Preferences for a lot of different things about the OSX and Apple program UIs would make a lot of people happy, but that would "upset the vision," I guess.
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