Submit Hint Search The Forums LinksStatsPollsHeadlinesRSS
14,000 hints and counting!


Click here to return to the 'Why Apple went over the line' hint
The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Why Apple went over the line
Authored by: bakalite on Jan 11, '06 01:23:49PM

1) Decent apps will TELL you when they are sending some info somewhere, and allow you to opt out before it is being sent. At minimum, Apple should have coded in a little pop up window that alerts you about this and allows you to opt out. The default would of course be to opt in. They could have made this part of the agreement if they wanted to do so.

2) Amazon etc. are all in a different category. When you go to the Amazon site you are interacting with another computer and doing searches on that computer. Clearly, you are giving the information to a third party at that point. iTunes is a program running on your computer dealing with your music. Sending info somewhere else is not obvious, but rather devious.

3) Clearly iTunes has the capability to send information over the internet. This is how it gets song data when you rip a CD, so this capability has always been part of it. However, if you use your browser to look at a text file, you don't expect that information to go out over the wires. In the same way, when you use iTunes to listen to music, you don't expect that info to go out over the wires.

4) Would you mind if the new iSight camera laptops send random snapshots to Apple? It clearly already has that capability, since it's used for video conferencing.

Apple should do the right thing here, apologize, give people the option to opt out, and move on. Otherwise this could turn into some really bad publicity for them.

Paul.



[ Reply to This | # ]
Why Apple went over the line
Authored by: cougar718 on Jan 11, '06 01:46:15PM
1) Decent apps will TELL you when they are sending some info somewhere, and allow you to opt out before it is being sent. At minimum, Apple should have coded in a little pop up window that alerts you about this and allows you to opt out. The default would of course be to opt in. They could have made this part of the agreement if they wanted to do so.
By disabling the Mini-Store (Shift-Command M), you are disabling it. What purpose does the Mini-Store serve if it does not offer the convenience it does? None, so obviously the user should realize what it's doing.
2) Amazon etc. are all in a different category. When you go to the Amazon site you are interacting with another computer and doing searches on that computer. Clearly, you are giving the information to a third party at that point. iTunes is a program running on your computer dealing with your music. Sending info somewhere else is not obvious, but rather devious.
When you point your web browser to Amazon, you are in fact, like you said, interacting with another computer and doing searches on that computer. We agree there. But with iTunes, iTunes is interacting with another computer as well, the iTunes Music Store. So your music will always be linked some how to iTunes music store. Why wouldn't it be? That's the convenience ITMS offers.
3) Clearly iTunes has the capability to send information over the internet. This is how it gets song data when you rip a CD, so this capability has always been part of it. However, if you use your browser to look at a text file, you don't expect that information to go out over the wires. In the same way, when you use iTunes to listen to music, you don't expect that info to go out over the wires.
Why shouldn't iTunes do this? If it will only strengthen Apple's ITMS then I don't see what the problem is. Perhaps Apple is using this to survey what Music they should get rid of and what music they should start offering. But this is not like personal data that iTunes Music Store would not happen. This is song information that iTunes Music Store already has. Take any popular artist, when you highlight a song by that artist, the mini-store shows albums offered by the ITMS for that artist. So again, what's the problem?
4) Would you mind if the new iSight camera laptops send random snapshots to Apple? It clearly already has that capability, since it's used for video conferencing.
This is completely different and a very bad analogy. The snapshots in your analogy would contain COMPLETELY unique data that can only be found on your machine, no one else s and therefore would qualify under personal data. Song information is already on the internet.

---
Rick alias cougar

[ Reply to This | # ]

Why Apple went over the line
Authored by: bakalite on Jan 11, '06 04:57:43PM

You guys are missing a couple of points. The most important is that this is a forum for tech savvy people. Joe Blow user isn't going to know that the mini store is sending anything, so Apple needs to make it clear. We are not talking about a very complicated App here. The Mac prides itself on being easy to use, and almost everyone using a Mac is using iTunes. This means that a lot of people who have NO CLUE are having their data harvested by Apple. I think this is totally uncool, and Apple should be proactive in dealing with it, for it's own sake.

Rob, I know that you said that someone at Apple told you that the Data was not being collected, but that really doesn't mean anything. All it really means, is that RIGHT NOW no data is being collected. They could start anytime they feel like it.

I stand by my point. Decent apps tell you when they are transmitting data you didn't specifically send, and Apple should apologize, and let people opt out if they want to.

And before anyone tells me to "just turn off the mini store", please read my post again. It isn't a question of ME turning it off. It's a question of your Grandma even being aware that her computer is sending data she didn't specifically authorize to be sent. It's a matter of principle, and Apple should step up to the plate.



[ Reply to This | # ]
Why Apple went over the line
Authored by: captain caveman on Jan 11, '06 02:06:21PM

>Decent apps will TELL you when they are sending some info somewhere, and allow you to opt out before it is being sent.

Did iTunes tell you it would connect to the internet before connecting to the music store the first time? I don't remember it doing so, or causing any stir.

When you go to the http://www.apple.com/itunes/download/ to download iTunes, it says, with a Red "New" sticker next to it, "MiniStore - Discover new music as you enjoy your collection"... how can you discover new music without sending anything out?
Don't want to discover? Close the mini store.
Wait a sec? Mini store? wonder if that's related to the Music store at all?

>iTunes is a program running on your computer dealing with your music. Sending info somewhere else is not obvious, but rather devious.

Unless you are interacting with the Radio playlist.
Unless you are interacting with the iTunes music store. We've had those little grey arrows next to our local tracks for awhile now... we've been led incrementally to this step.

It's not like Excel suddenly decided to start using the internet for somethings... general understanding right now is that Excel doesn't have any reason to connect to the internet as far as I know. iTunes has been internet connected for a long time.

Or Sony's rootkit which hasn't brought us slowly into internet connectivity... just blam, you're send data.

>Clearly iTunes has the capability to send information over the internet. This is how it gets song data when you rip a CD, so this capability has always been part of it. However, if you use your browser to look at a text file, you don't expect that information to go out over the wires. In the same way, when you use iTunes to listen to music, you don't expect that info to go out over the wires.

Agreed, but it did tell you something would be happening. In clear text next to the download they effectively say "You have stuff on your machine, the MiniStore will look for other stuff for you based on what you are doing".

>Would you mind if the new iSight camera laptops send random snapshots to Apple?

No, but that's comparing oranges to plums. This would be more like Apple adding profile stuff to iChat suggesting other people you might like to talk to based on some interests you setup somewhere.


>Apple should do the right thing here, apologize, give people the option to opt out, and move on. Otherwise this could turn into some really bad publicity for them.

Turn off the MiniStore... you're done.
Maybe they should add a link to the MiniStore word in the documentation that spells out more clearly in a technical sense what is being sent.



[ Reply to This | # ]
Why Apple went over the line
Authored by: cougar718 on Jan 11, '06 02:24:31PM

Amen!

---
Rick alias cougar



[ Reply to This | # ]