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Remembering September 11th...
Authored by: JayBee on Sep 12, '03 05:20:50AM

Well said, Rob.

Beautifully diplomatic - I can tell a lot of thought went into that post, and I appreciate it.

I think the way the discussion has proceeded from your careful and tactful statements somewhat sums up your closing worries about our future.

11/9 is as important to Americans as 11/11 is to Brits, as 14/7 is to the French, as 6/8 is to the Japanese, as 16/4 is to the Scots, as 13/2 is to Iraqis.

The problem with using these specific dates outwith personal remembrance (and I appreciate that Rob is using this day as <b>personal</b> remembrance) is that they are rooted in conflict. For the Iraqis, it is a day to remember those killed by Allied bombs; for Scots, it is a day to remember those killed by the English; for the Japanese those killed by the Americans; for the French those killed by their aristocracy; for the Brits those killed by the Axis, and for the Americans those killed by the nebulous (and dangerously so) Terrorists.

We then extend those days to cover all compatriots killed by external forces. I feel that those reminding us of (for example) the number of Americans killed <i>by Americans</i> have a valid point in that we should be working towards a day and a time when all loss of life is treated as equally tragic. Whether someone was killed in a head-on car crash, or was bombed in a civillian bomb shelter, they lost their lives and will leave loved ones behind who have to cope with that.

While the media (and again, I have to stress that I am <i>excluding</i> Rob from this criticism - Rob, I applaud what you're doing and the way you're doing it) remains focussed on using and manipulating dates for jingoistic fervour, we've all missed the point, and we're all just contributing to the causes of those who see us as distateful and hypocritical. "Terror" is not a country with a unified ideology. It is slowly being manipulated to point at any country whose ideology is at odds with the US and Britain.

One of the beautiful lessons of all the dates mentioned above is that, in many cases, the previous "enemies" have become reconciled. The Scots no longer war with the English (and vice versa), the Allies no longer war with the Axis etc.

When you are dealing with a unified political ideology, you can see an end to conflict where the two groups can live in peace. Ironically, peace through resolution should be the purpose of any war in the long run.

The problem with the "War on Terror" is that there is <i>no way</i> that it can end peacefully. Terrorism cannot be eradicated, as it is a (tragically) natural extension of human frustration when politics fails.

We cannot "make peace" with Terrorism, and we similarly cannot "destroy" Terrorism. How, then, can we ever conclude this war?

The only way is by giving Terrorists nothing to criticise, no hypocrisies to rally followers around, no atrocities to cite as our arrogance, no brutalities to cite as our injustice, no rope to us with.

Our current courses of action (and I say "our" as a Brit) are doing nothing toward this end, and as such I share Rob's fear for our future.

Thankfully, the debate here reassures me that, finally, we are all thinking politically again. If nothing else, 11/9 should be remembered as the day we in the "west" all remembered the human element of politics, and all started thinking and questioning again.

I believe that every day should be a day of reflection, that reflection should be apolitical (I mourn the loss of the souls flying the planes too - whether you believe they were lost before they boarded the plane or not, they were not born terrorists).

Ironically, our governments seem to be hell bent on making every day a day of mourning, but I don't want to see that realisation happen by having each day of the year commemorate a different atrocity done in my name, in the name of "freedom and justice for all".

Sorry if this rambled. Just had to get it off my chest.

Well done Rob. And thanks - you're an inspiration in this site, and reassure me that we <i>will</i> be all right.

Too many people open their mouths without thinking (and I can often be one of those). Thanks for thinking.



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Remembering September 11th...
Authored by: JayBee on Sep 12, '03 05:23:07AM

dammit, sorry about the HTML.

Forgot to switch it on, and forgot you can't edit when it goes up!



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Very well said...
Authored by: jiclark on Sep 12, '03 11:32:08PM
...despite forgetting to turn on HTML formatting. ;-} I find debates like this facinating. I'm amazed that anyone thinks that any of these posts were actually criticizing Rob! We're all just trying to process difficult and complex feelings. I didn't read criticism in any of the above posts, just differing opinions on what is the "meaning" of 9/11, and where we are headed today as a result of those events. JayBee, you've elucidated exactly what I've felt since I first heard the phrase "war on terrorism". It can't be won, except by removing any and all personal freedoms! [Unfortunately, that's what it appears Atty. Gen'l. Ashcroft is doing his best to accomplish.] And (almost) everything our governments are doing abroad is actually fomentingmore terrorism, not doing anything to end it!! That's why it's not hard to understand where all these amazing conspiracy theories are coming from. "Power corrupts, and absolute power..." The saddest part is that so few people can see the fallacy behind the concept of waging a "war on terrorism". It's the emperor's new clothes, all over again... Peace everyone, PEACE.

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