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Ogg sucks
Authored by: eno on Nov 04, '02 12:54:40AM

No disrespect intended to the author of this hint, but I think ogg sucks and I don't know why so many people are bending over backwards to adopt it. Mp3 is the standard and it works perfectly well. Why all this fervour for ogg?



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Ogg sucks
Authored by: jtrascap on Nov 04, '02 02:04:05AM

Part of it **is** that OGG is better in some ranges of the audio spectrum - this is what studies/reports have found over the years. (DISCLAIMER: I am a MacOSX and Solaris user, and have NO OGG files, plus I'm over 40 and my hearing is going. I don't care who's audio is best 'cause I can't hear it anyway. No flamewars please!)

The other part is that it's the favorite audio format of Linux folk, so if only for PR, it's excellent that OS X is supporting OGG. For some, not being able to move gigabytes of music to a new platform is just another excuse to not give in and go to OSX. Remove that reason, and the move looks a bit better.



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Ogg sucks
Authored by: mrchuck on Nov 04, '02 02:09:18AM
Lesse, arguably better sound format without patents


Free is good. Gets adopted more widely.

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Ogg sucks
Authored by: gralem on Nov 05, '02 08:17:07AM
Yes, Ogg (free) has been adopted SOOO much faster than mp3 (patented). Here's a fun one. Go to www.amazon.com or www.ebay.com and search EVERYTHING for ogg. You will see not a single result relating to Ogg Vorbis--NOTHING.

Not a flame war--like the person above, I can't hear the difference and I don't care. But please don't use flawed expressions like Free is good. Gets adopted more widely.

Still, I think it would be GREAT to get ogg support into iTunes, especially encoding.

---gralem

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Ogg sucks
Authored by: c15zyx on Nov 05, '02 10:22:45AM
The notion of it being free is only good for developers. People are supposed to pay licenses (or the company that makes the software is supposed to) if they use *any* mp3 decoder or encoder now (see thompson licensing) but nobody does. sigh. As for the quality, if you've seen the forums at hydrogen audio (where the developers of LAME, vorbis, aac, mpc, flac, etc. encoders hang out) then you would know that ogg vorbis is the superior to mp3 at all bitrates. If you cannot hear the difference, then fine stick with mp3 for convenience, but don't dismiss the technical superiority of vorbis based on this. Ogg files that vbr around 170-180 can easily be equivalent to mp3s of 224 kbps. As for lowbitrate streaming... the quality of ogg vorbis even beats real media. If people are seriously going to criticize vorbis, then at least do some hard testing and be a little more knowledgeable.

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Ogg sucks
Authored by: phidauex on Nov 05, '02 01:20:03PM

I've done a lot of comparison listening, and found ogg to be superiour in audio quality at most bitrates. I think ogg Q 4.99 is a great balance between file size and audio quality. 4.99 retains cross-channel coupling, so the file size is smaller than a 192kbs mp3, yet is high enough q to be noticabley better sounding.

Also, the benefits of open source formats like this aren't to be tossed aside lightly. Sure it doesn't seem to be bothering you at the moment that you aren't paying the mp3 license fees, but with DRM getting built into more and more devices, accountability grows, and big business can pull the noose tight on you. Remember how internet radio was basically shut down recently? Thats due in part to mp3 licencing issues. You can stream ogg all you want without fear of anyone trying to stop you on format licencing issues, because its free. Free doesn't mean 'no cost', it means that you don't have to put all your eggs into some companies basket in order to use it.

Ogg may not be the best choice for many mac users until the ipod supports it, i admit, but I hope that the ipod will eventually support it, and when it does, I fully expect to switch my collection to ogg. (small technical note: transcoding from mp3 to ogg (or between any different encoding methods) is not recommended. It harms the sound quality quite a bit. The best option is to go back to the source material and re-rip and encode. Until you can do that, stick with a 'hybrid' collection of mp3s and ogg, and just phase out the mp3 over time as you have the time to access the source material.)

peace,
sam



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Ogg sucks
Authored by: jfulton on Dec 11, '02 09:36:00AM

I see that you would encode your music in the popular, but patent encumbered,
mp3 format. May I suggest the patent-free Ogg Vorbis format, encoders and
players for which are available for all major operating systems:

http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/index.html

Software patents are a great danger to everyone's ability to create,
use, and share software. For further reading on this topic, I suggest
this transcript:

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/stallman-patents.html

it's also available as an audio recording:

http://audio-video.gnu.org/audio/rms-speech-cambridgeuni-england2002.ogg

If you are concerned that by encoding music in Ogg Vorbis format, you
won't be able to share with others, note that by tacitly encouraging
the use of software patents, you're promoting a future where nobody
will be able to share anything on a computer:

http://cryptome.org/ms-drm-os2.htm



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Ogg sucks
Authored by: doncristobal on Aug 10, '03 12:58:10AM

Although I haven't noticed a difference and have always been content with mp3, I use ogg because one of my favorite bands as a download site with everything in ogg. So, whether it sucks or not is irrevevant. I want that music, so I use ogg to get it. Better than not being able to download the music I want.



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