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10.6: Snow Leopard DVD is full OS X install disc
Authored by: TonyT on Oct 15, '09 10:12:01AM
On your Mac HD, Read: Library/Documentation/License --------> C. Leopard Upgrade Licenses. If you have purchased an Upgrade for Mac OS X Leopard license, then subject to the terms and conditions of this License, you are granted a limited non-exclusive license to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-branded computer as long as that computer has a properly licensed copy of Mac OS X Leopard already installed on it. If you have purchased a Family Pack Upgrade for Mac OS X Leopard license, then subject to the terms and conditions of this License, you are granted a limited non-exclusive license to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on up to a maximum of five (5) Apple-branded computers at a time as long as those computers are located in the same household (as defined above), are used by persons who occupy that same household, and each such computer has a properly licensed copy of Mac OS X Leopard already installed on it.

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10.6: Snow Leopard DVD is full OS X install disc
Authored by: junkie on Oct 15, '09 11:15:30AM
Tony, according to Apple license they were supposed to release an upgrade version of the OS and a full version of the OS. Nowhere on the box that you buy from Apple does it say upgrade. If you buy 10.6 online, your bill of sale says "Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard". Why would any reasonable person think that that version is the upgrade as opposed to simply a single user license or a family pack license? It does not say upgrade anywhere. As far as I am concerned Apple never sold an upgrade version and they are selling the Single User license for $29 and the Family Pack for $49. There is no upgrade version because they don't sell anything called that. They are only selling the full Single User License and Family Pack license and there is no restriction regarding previous OS version on those. If Apple sold an upgrade version and called it that then you might have a point, but Apple does not sell that product. This is the relevant portion of the clause of the license for the product Apple sells:
A. Single Use License. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, unless you have purchased a Family Pack or Upgrade license for the Apple Software, you are granted a limited non-exclusive license to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-branded computer at a time.
See I have not purchased an upgrade, so the Single User License is relevant, not the Upgrade clause and there is no restriction there. and
B. Family Pack License. If you have purchased a Family Pack license, then subject to the terms and conditions of this License, you are granted a limited non-exclusive license to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on up to a maximum of five (5) Apple-branded computers at a time as long as those computers are located in the same household and used by persons who occupy that same household.
Again, no Upgrade version is being sold. Nowhere on the box does it say upgrade, the website says I am buying plain old 10.6. The section that you cite is in the License but they refer to products that were never released so no one with 10.4 is breaking the license since everyone is buying the full version.

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10.6: Snow Leopard DVD is full OS X install disc
Authored by: TonyT on Oct 15, '09 11:26:26AM

Its very clear on Apple's Website (and it's not a 'suggestion' either) -- If your Intel-based Mac is running Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger, purchase the Mac Box Set. (and the SLA is also clear on this point).



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10.6: Snow Leopard DVD is full OS X install disc
Authored by: junkie on Oct 15, '09 07:54:40PM

The website says the Box Set is the "best way" to upgrade for Tiger users. Sounds like a suggestion to me. Best way does not mean only way or only allowable way. What it needs to say is this is the Upgrade version and there needs to be another version that is the full version - and that needs to be clear. In fact the Box Set also says its an upgrade.

But more to the point, this product is also sold in stores and by Amazon and a ton of other 3rd party retailers. If I walk into an Apple store, pay $29 and walk out NO WHERE am I told I just bought an upgrade and not a full version. No sticker. No label. No marking. Nothing. That is because the Upgrade version was never made - it does not exist. Look at the Apple store, on the right they show two versions, a single user and family pack, neither of these is called an upgrade as it would need to be under the license. The box at the very least should describe what it is - it just says it is Snow Leopard 10.6.

Look, if Apple wants to enforce this policy they need to make an upgrade version, make it clear and make that the $29 version if that is there intention. As far as this packaging shows there is no "Upgrade" version. There is no sense in pretending that Apple is following its own policy when it doesn't care to make the products it defines in its license.

This user and any user who installs on 10.4 does nothing wrong.



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10.6: Snow Leopard DVD is full OS X install disc
Authored by: TonyT on Oct 15, '09 08:15:59PM

>NO WHERE am I told I just bought an upgrade and not a full version

Go the the Apple Store on the Web, it says: "Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Upgrade from Mac OS X Leopard with Snow Leopard - Snow Leopard is an upgrade for Leopard users and requires a Mac with an Intel processor."

But, I guess you'll now argue that this only applies if you buy it direct from Apple on the web.

Apple needs to implements a system similar to Microsoft's "Windows Genuine Advantage" to prevent theft of their software.



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Like OS X Server...
Authored by: gabester on Oct 15, '09 08:52:17PM

The day Apple implements WGA-style licensing and activation a la Microsoft is the day many of their customers will switch to Ubuntu.

Actually, they already have something like it implemented for Mac OS X Server... but I can understand that for a $500+ piece of software that is not widely deployed. For a desktop OS, however, serial numbers or activation keys or wga checks are all quite a "bag of hurt" to those legitimately implementing the software and pose no impediment whatsoever to those who have no interest in doing so.
g=



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Like OS X Server...
Authored by: TonyT on Oct 15, '09 09:13:47PM

I agree, hopefully only a small % of sales are lost from these 'hints'. What makes it worse is when major publications condone the practice (Goatberg from the WSJ said "But here's a tip: Apple concedes that the $29 Snow Leopard upgrade will work properly on these Tiger-equipped Macs, so you can save the extra $140." Unbelievable.



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10.6: Snow Leopard DVD is full OS X install disc
Authored by: junkie on Oct 18, '09 06:18:30AM

Yes, that is the point. It effectively only applies to versions sold from Apple, online because that is the only place where one gets any indication that there is any intent to sell a product that has no markings that it is an upgrade as an upgrade. And even then the notification is insufficient.

You need to look at it from the standpoint not of an Apple fan who lives on every word that Apple says but from the standpoint of a reasonable person buying an upgrade for his or her computer. If he walks into a Best Buy, buys a SL disk and goes home and installs it, he has not done anything wrong. And even if he cares to read the SLA, clicking agree on the SLA, there was no reasonable way for him to know that the terms for the Upgrade might apply to him, in fact they don't. There is no mention of upgrade on the box or likely from Best Buy. And in fact the disk works to upgrade from 10.4. The creator of the software made no reasonable attempt to protect the software from a use it did not intend.

If Apple sold three boxes that said upgrade from 10.5 $29, upgrade from 10.4 $129 and Box Set $169, and clearly on the box it was written what was what and the SLA referred correctly to each of these versions making it clear what the rules were for each, then you would have an argument, that would be reasonable indication what is allowable. The customer would have actual notice about the allowable uses of the product that was sold and at the moment of clicking agree the customer would have fair warning of whether or not the use the customer intends for the product is conforms to the agreement or not.

It is as if I bought a DVD that contained Season 1 - 3 of Friends. On the box it says Season 1 - 3 of Friends. But if I look at the details of the license it says if I bought the partial license then I only have rights to watch season one, if I buy the full license I have rights to watch all three. Yet nowhere on the box does it say what is being sold or what version I own. It just says Season 1 - 3 of Friends. At no time when I bought the DVD was there a mention of which version I was buying.

Now if I had gone to the Universal website I might see that they say "to watch all season of Friends buy the Friends, ER Seinfeld Box Set". And in another place they say Season 1 - 3 of Friends is only a partial license. But then when purchasing the DVD, even on their own website, they have no options for partial or full license, it only says Season 1 - 3 of Friends.

Your argument is that I am somehow breaking an agreement by watching season two and three when I have had no reasonable notice from the seller or the product itself that all of the contents of the product are not rightfully mine to use. You say that somehow it is my duty as a buyer to go back to the manufacturers website and check whether I have full use of the item that was sold to me before I watch season two or three even though from the product and the retailer I have had not indication that I am not rightfully entitled to season one thru three of Friends. I don't think any reasonable person would be expected to do this.

If you are going to sell a product to someone that does X Y and Z and in fact your intention is that X and Y are allowable but Z is not, then your should have clear indication on the product that, hey you think you are buying Z but you are not. Z is in the box but you are not allowed to do Z. Z is included as a courtesy to other people but not to you.



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10.6: Snow Leopard DVD is full OS X install disc
Authored by: TonyT on Oct 18, '09 09:38:09AM

>Yes, that is the point. It effectively only applies to versions sold from Apple, online because that is the only place where one gets any indication that there is any intent to sell a product that has no markings that it is an upgrade as an upgrade. And even then the notification is insufficient.

Nope, In order to Install 10.6, you MUST agree to the terms of the SLA. The terms are presented to you and you MUST click AGREE. If the buyer does not own Leopard (item C), then he can't agree to the terms. If he does not understand the terms, then he also can't Agree. But the buyer is not harmed, the seller will issue him a refund.

>The creator of the software made no reasonable attempt to protect the software from a use it did not intend.

Incorrect, Apple makes it mandatory for the purchaser to agree to the terms in order to install the software. (You would only be correct if the software were installed even if the user clicked Disagree)



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10.6: Snow Leopard DVD is full OS X install disc
Authored by: junkie on Oct 20, '09 04:37:24AM

Yes my slow friend but the problem is not with the terms of the SLA, it is that in the real world the product you think is described in the terms does not exist. Despite what Apple may say in one area of their website, there is no upgrade version in the real world. Everyone buying the $29 version of the product is buying the single user version of the product, according to the box, according to the function of the contents of the box. They have no reason to think that a clause referring to upgrade has anything to do with them. The section you cite refers to an upgrade version that does not exist. The only term that is relevant is the one without the requirement of 10.5.



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10.6: Snow Leopard DVD is full OS X install disc
Authored by: tedw on Oct 20, '09 08:24:32AM
"Yes my slow friend..."
Junkie, this is a good line if you're trying to piss someone off, but not such a good line if you're trying to make a reasonable argument. Which are you aiming to do?

Regardless, we are not discussing here what someone might (in all innocence) think or do if they happen to buy the dvd on a whim. We are discussing whether a thoughtful, informed person can ethically follow the instructions given in this hint. It's one thing if something installs the OS ignorantly, sure; but you can't reasonably use an 'ignorance' argument when we're talking about following instructions that start with the phrase "Despite Apple's suggestion on the Snow Leopard specs page...". At that point everybody *knows* it's not what Apple wants, and the only question left is whether one should do it anyway.

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