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Cloning via Carbon Copy Cloner may disable journaling Apps
I've recently had problems with my Xserve crashing and then failing to re-start; usually it seemed like some drive damage had occurred to prevent users from logging in. I'd always thought journaling was meant to reduce this kind of situation.

Following the crashes, I've always had to restore from a disk image, but that doesn't get to the root of the problem. So after some digging around, I noticed in Disk Utility that the Enable Journaling icon was active -- it was the same for any disk that had been cloned (using CCC) and restored (using Disk Utility).

I don't know if this is the default behavior, but it's definitely worth checking out if you've ever cloned and restored.

[robg adds: I don't use CCC, so I can't easily confirm this one -- comments, please? If it's not true, I'll remove it...]
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Cloning via Carbon Copy Cloner may disable journaling | 11 comments | Create New Account
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Cloning via Carbon Copy Cloner may disable journaling
Authored by: Chuck Jonah on Sep 20, '06 08:15:10AM

I checked the clones I had done with CCC and found that indeed the journaling had been turned off.



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Cloning via Carbon Copy Cloner may disable journaling
Authored by: stevanreese on Sep 20, '06 09:32:48AM
I have never had this happen using CCC on Mac OS X 10.3 - 10.4.7.
If you are having unexpected behavior I suggest contacting the author or checking his site for known issues.
http://www.bombich.com/software/ccc.html scroll down to Known Issues.

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Cloning via Carbon Copy Cloner *does not* disable journaling
Authored by: bombich on Sep 20, '06 09:40:52AM

A few comments from the author of CCC (me):

1) Journaling does not prevent drive corruption, rather it prevents inconsistencies in the filesystem. Issues with users being unable to login is more likely to be caused by database corruption (e.g. incomplete transactions) in your LDAP database than a filesystem inconsistency.

2) Cloning Mac OS X Server is not supported by CCC (view the system requirements). I have never recommended using CCC for MOSXS. While it will work in many cases, there are specific issues with cloning open databases that I have never addressed, nor desired to address. If you are cloning or backing up Mac OS X Server, I recommend using tools that are designed for dealing with Mac OS X Server.

3) There is no code in CCC that disables journaling. I just performed the following test:

a) Format the target volume with four partitions, each formatted as "HFS+ (Journaled)"
b) Restore a disk image of a standard installation of Mac OS 10.4.7 to the first partition --> Journaling still enabled on all four partitions
c) Use CCC to clone the boot partition to the second partition --> Journaling still enabled on all four partitions
d) Rebooted from cloned partition --> Journaling still enabled on all four partitions

I think something else is going on here, and it is not related to CCC.

---
Mike Bombich | Bombich Software | http://www.bombich.com



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Not True in my Experience
Authored by: bedouin on Sep 20, '06 03:35:49PM

My boot drive was cloned from another drive and Disk Utility verifies that journaling is enabled on it.



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Cloning via Carbon Copy Cloner may disable journaling
Authored by: hamarkus on Sep 20, '06 04:11:21PM

Is it possible that those who reported the loss of journaling, had cloned initially to back-up drive that had been formatted without journaling, maybe because the back-up drive was last formatted some long time ago?



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Cloning via Carbon Copy Cloner may disable journaling
Authored by: ephramz on Sep 20, '06 04:20:55PM

Does anyone know how I can use CCC to clone from a local disk to a disk on the network? I have a clamshell iBook (no firewire, just USB, so Migration Assistant doesn't seem to work) that I want to transfer the entire contents of to a CRT iMac with firewire. The only way I could think of to connect them was with ethernet, but CCC doesn't seem to recognize network volumes.

When I tried to do what CCC does by hand on the command line, basically doing a
"sudo cp -R /Volumes/fromdisk/* /Volumes/destdisk"
I get lots of weird permission errors, even when logged in as an admin on the network disk computer.

I've also tried doing this same thing with an external USB/Firewire external disk which CCC started copying the clamshell files to very slowly over the USB 1 connection, but then just hung for hours on one file (not a particularly big one too), so I gave up on that. I was thinking I could then use the migration assistant with this disk hooked up via firewire to the iMac.

Any other creative ways to do this would be much appreciated!



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Cloning via Carbon Copy Cloner may disable journaling
Authored by: baltwo on Sep 21, '06 04:15:20PM

CCC over a network is not a supportable configuration. However, CCC works if you hook one machine up to the other in Target Disk Mode via FireWire.



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Cloning via Carbon Copy Cloner may disable journaling
Authored by: Zali on Sep 20, '06 10:08:51PM
Although no mention is made of loss of journaling, these two articles (and comment threads) regarding Mac backup and cloning software provide thorough comparisons and evaluations and are well worth reading. Based on the recommendations there, I switched several months ago to SuperDuper for cloning purposes, and can confirm the articles' findings.

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Cloning via Carbon Copy Cloner may disable journaling
Authored by: da2357 on Sep 21, '06 09:22:43AM

I agree fully with Mike Bombich and others in that I've been using CCC in the public school sector for several years... and have never seen the problem mentioned. In my experience, CCC has nothing to do with journaling being turned on or off; rather, this is a function of Disk Utility and I wonder whether the volume was erased with journaling off in the first place. Having cloned literally thousands of laptops using CCC and never seeing that happen to me, I think the original writer needs to look elsewhere for their solution.



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I don't think so
Authored by: Ilgaz on Sep 21, '06 10:51:22AM

Everything suggests a real disk failure, caused by a non-relocated bad block other than journalling or carbon copy cloner.

Another thing: Is Carbon Copy Cloner compatible with OS X Server aka Xserve? There are differences between systems. First, Xserve comes with ACL on; OS X (client) comes with ACL off. (Ref: Bresink help file on Tinkertool System)

Even if Carbon Copy cloner has an evil "bug," you can't blame the package. Does it say "Xserve" in system requirements/compatibility? No. I would specifically look for "XServe" whatever I install to that machine.

As another person said, journalling (and SMART too!) makes people think there could be no sector errors, no corrupt files anymore. Journalling only handles "where" files are, not "content" of them corrupt or not. Lets say your kernel crashed while saving a jpeg and file is incomplete. Next time you reboot, OS X will replay "journal" and fix inconsistencies in volumes file allocation table. It won't magically fix a corrupt jpeg.



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Cloning via Carbon Copy Cloner may disable journaling
Authored by: BeezelNut RaRa on Sep 22, '06 02:20:31AM

I've used CCC to clone hundreds of Macs without incident. Every single Mac in the office is cloned from a master. Every disk always has journalling turned on and CCC doesn't affect this.

I've even used CCC to restore my Panther xServe on a couple occasions where there was disk damage. What I don't get: an xServe disk is badly damaged; I clone it to a Firewire drive; I reformat the damaged disk; I clone back from the FW drive; everything is splendid. You'd think CCC would clone the damage wouldn't you?

(Why did I do this? I trust CCC more than Retrospect. I figured Retrospect would take 12 hours to recover the disk, where I knew CCC would do it in under an hour, and a lot of people were standing around waiting to work again.)



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