Submit Hint Search The Forums LinksStatsPollsHeadlinesRSS
14,000 hints and counting!

Fix an SBC Yahoo outgoing email issue with .Mac Internet
I recently moved to SBC Yahoo DSL, and was disturbed when my .Mac email account stopped accepting email. It turns out that SBC filters port 25, which is used by .Mac and other email services for outgoing email. They told everyone about this last September, but they don't tell you if just signed up. Fortunately, you can "opt out" of the port filtering:
FROM SBC TECH SUPPORT:
As announced in the September 2004 Member newsletters, SBCIS began filtering direct outgoing email connections using Port 25 (SMTP) to non-SBCIS/Yahoo mail servers from Members using dynamic DSL and Dialup connections. Port 25 filters are widely used by many ISPs to combat junk email and spam from misconfigured and virus-infected computers.
By following these instructions (after item #4), you can fix things.
    •    
  • Currently 2.40 / 5
  You rated: 1 / 5 (5 votes cast)
 
[29,771 views]  

Fix an SBC Yahoo outgoing email issue with .Mac | 15 comments | Create New Account
Click here to return to the 'Fix an SBC Yahoo outgoing email issue with .Mac' hint
The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Fix an SBC Yahoo outgoing email issue with .Mac
Authored by: orb on Mar 01, '05 08:50:50AM

Did this actually work for you? I was told to this initially, but it didn't actually work. The only solution to the problem was to call back repeatedly until they escalated the issue and let me talk to a network guy who removed the block in about 30 seconds.

If your only goal is to reach .mac then just switch from port 25 to port 587 for outgoing .mac mail. It'll work just fine, but you'll lose out on the ability to help SBC see that dumb things like this affect real users.



[ Reply to This | # ]
Fix an SBC Yahoo outgoing email issue with .Mac
Authored by: kchrist on Mar 01, '05 10:02:43AM

On the contrary, port 25 filtering is a very effective spam prevention measure and I applaud any ISP who does this. It's most important for dialup connections, but mail servers shouldn't be run on dynamically assigned IP addresses whether they're dialup, DSL, cable modem, or whatever.

About four years ago Earthlink rolled out port 25 filtering for all our dialup accounts. I was working in their network abuse department at the time, and my group was the driving force behind getting this change implemented. We were one of the first ISPs to do this nationwide and it had a HUGE effect on the number of spammers abusing our service. We saw numerous professional spammers -- people who would sign up 20 - 30 accounts per day with stolen credit cards and spam until we found and killed the account an hour or two later -- just disappear. See, with the port 25 filtering, they could no longer use open relays overseas or on cable modems, etc, from our service. The only way to send mail from one of our dialups was to do it through our mail servers where we would notice spam immediately. So they left and went to ISPs it was easier to spam from.

The other obvious benefit is that clueless users who set up insecure mail servers on their cable modems or whatever cannot be abused by spammers.

I'm sympathetic to the argument that stuff like this breaks the end-to-end nature of the internet, but we have to change with the times, and if people (ie, spammers; I use the term "people" loosely) are going to be assholes we have to take steps to stop them. The alternative will cause the internet to decrease in usefulness for everyone as opposed to the relatively few people with the legitimate need to send mail thorugh other SMTP servers.



[ Reply to This | # ]
Fix an SBC Yahoo outgoing email issue with .Mac
Authored by: unclecal on Mar 02, '05 04:44:39AM

Blocking outgoing email on port 25 does nothing for the Macintosh user.
It does little for the PC user for that matter.
It's true it might protect the ISP from getting emails from infected Windows machines, but that won't last long.

Most experts agree, it's a weak stop gap measure at best. It hasn't even been adopted by Comcast or AOL which make up more then 50% of the broadband market share. So, it will do little to stem the Windows-propagated spam tide.

For the mac user it's just an annoyance.
No reason we should be inconvenienced by Microsoft's security flaws.



[ Reply to This | # ]
Fix an SBC Yahoo outgoing email issue with .Mac
Authored by: kchrist on Mar 02, '05 02:42:01PM

Port 25 filtering is not meant to benefit end users directly, it's meant to inconvenience spammers and keep them from abusing the networks of the ISPs implementing the filter. The indirect benefit that end users get, regardless of OS they're using, is that is makes things harder for spammers, and therefore causes less spam to be sent out. I can assure you, widespread port 25 filtering put a serious crimp in spammers' activities.

AOL *is* filtering port 25 traffic, at least on some of their dialups. They were at the time anyway, and while they may have stopped, I find it unlikely. One of the reasons for this is that some of the backbone providers, UUNET for example, began requiring it of the ISPs that used their network. UUNET's requirement affected Earthlink, MSN, AOL, and probably dozens or more smaller ISPs that leased their POPs.

Please don't try to turn this into a Mac v. Window thing. This has nothing to do with Mac users, or Windows users, or the security flaws of any OS. While it does also help with spam sent from compromised Windows machines, the intended consequence was that it would stop spammers using throwaway dialup accounts and spamming through open relays. It accomplished this in a big way. Sure, it still happens, but not nearly as much as it did.

Unfortunately the spam war is an arms race. Spammers have since come up with other methods of getting their junk out. First they used insecure proxy servers, and then they started installing their own proxies delivered via e-mail viruses. Steps have been taken to deal with this, but their evolution does not invalidate the steps we've taken previously.

I agree that we need to find a balance between causing problems for spammers and as little inconvenience as possible for end users, but port 25 filtering affects an extremely small percentage of the internet-using population. Of that percentage, another very small percentage have a problem with simply using their ISPs SMTP servers. This is why use of the SMTP submission port (587/tcp) has become common over the past few years.

The point is, there's no reason to be upset about it. There are at least two trivial solutions to anyone affected by this problem.



[ Reply to This | # ]
Fix an SBC Yahoo outgoing email issue with .Mac
Authored by: rchaput on Mar 01, '05 09:39:31PM

Will switching to port 587 work for other ISPs or just .mac?



[ Reply to This | # ]
Fix an SBC Yahoo outgoing email issue with .Mac
Authored by: orb on Mar 02, '05 10:03:43AM

It *might* work with other ISPs. Not all providers are enlightened enough to provide the alternative mail port. If you have a good one, it will. Try it. A fast way is to open the terminal and "telnet your.mail.server 587". If you get a connect message, you know your provider supports it.



[ Reply to This | # ]
Fix an SBC Yahoo outgoing email issue with .Mac
Authored by: orb on Mar 02, '05 10:40:25AM

It *might* work with other ISPs. Not all providers are enlightened enough to provide the alternative mail port. If you have a good one, it will. Try it. A fast way is to open the terminal and "telnet your.mail.server 587". If you get a connect message, you know your provider supports it.



[ Reply to This | # ]
Fix an SBC Yahoo outgoing email issue with .Mac
Authored by: disinfor on Mar 01, '05 09:06:21AM

Hopefully this works...I was pulling out my hair for the last week trying to figure out if I did something to my system. I now have my outgoing mail going to sbc smtp (so it works), but I would prefer not to do that (personal choice).

Thanks for this hint.



[ Reply to This | # ]
Fix an SBC Yahoo outgoing email issue with .Mac
Authored by: wgscott on Mar 01, '05 01:22:48PM
I took another approach that allows me to get and send mail from any location that permits an ssh connection. This is especially handy when on the road. I made two ssh tunnels, one for SMTP and one for getting the mail. I put I did this mainly because I was sending my password out in clear text, which isn't a problem with .mac, but the principle is the same.

[ Reply to This | # ]
Fix an SBC Yahoo outgoing email issue with .Mac
Authored by: rchaput on Mar 01, '05 10:01:30PM

I am trying to help my daughter who's Entourage outgoing mail server quit working a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately, she doesn't remember her DSL username/password. Accordingly, I can't access the SBC instructions. Is it possible for you (or someone) to email the instructions? I would be most appreciative.

Thank you in advance for any help you can give me.



[ Reply to This | # ]
Fix an SBC Yahoo outgoing email issue with .Mac
Authored by: speedyg on Mar 02, '05 02:52:07AM

I got around this my simply using their outgoing smtp server as mine. It means opening the prefs on the account and setting the smtp server to: mail.swbell.net or in some cases mail.sbcglobal.yahoo.com. either way they will accept your outgoing mail and deliver it for you. Consider it like dropping the mail in the mailbox down the street instead of taking it all the way to your P.O. Box at the local Post Office. They don't care what you send as long as its not SPAM nor mass bulk mail.

Hope this helps, Its better than opening up a security hole for zombied winders machines.

---
SpeedyG
_______________________



[ Reply to This | # ]
Fix an SBC Yahoo outgoing email issue with .Mac
Authored by: unclecal on Mar 02, '05 05:33:13AM

This does work.

I posted this original message (not sure why it showed up anonymous) and used the procedure on my DSL for my home and business accounts.

It's important to note though, that according to SBC you will have use the automated web page to "opt-out" for each sub-account you have. After you do this you'll get an email instructing you to reset your DSL modem and router if you have one.

Alternately, changing your outgoing port to 587 will work too. I tried it first. But, I have no idea if that works for non-.Mac accounts and it won't work for any visiting guests trying to use your connection.

As to the safety of doing this...
Port 25 blocking is designed to protect the ISP, not you. They block Port 25 to stop out-of-control Window's PCs from spewing automated junk mail and clogging up their bandwidth. Some would argue that by opting out of this "feature" you're being a poor net citizen.

But I choose not to be inconvenienced by Microsoft's flawed operating system.
I have already done my part to protect the net...

I bought a mac.



[ Reply to This | # ]
Fix an SBC Yahoo outgoing email issue with .Mac
Authored by: xiong on Mar 31, '05 12:05:03PM

This is *absolutely* unacceptable. SBC sock puppets are wandering forums such as this one, telling users to bypass port 25 -- as if it's *our* fault.

The user above is exactly correct. This port blocking is done to protect SBS from lawsuits brought by angry SPAM recipients. Nor is port 25 blocked across the board. SBC has decided to selectively block users from port 25 based on what *they* feel is a profile of "risky" or "suspicious" behavior -- for example, sending mail from Eudora, instead of the "approved" (=nasty) MS Outlook; sending mail from more than one SMTP server.

This was done to me without any sort of warning. I have had no ability to send email for a day; and it's not fixed yet. I never send any sort of broadcast email of any kind, nothing even remotely approaching SPAM, not even a chatty circular email to friends and family, let alone anything commercial. Any commercial email I send is directly to a single recipient for a specific piece of business, usually pre-existing.

Now, I've got upset clients who wonder why I don't get in touch with them. The last time I got a class-action notice in the mail for SBC DSL I threw it away; I thought it was a cheap shot at a big target, and I've been very happy with the service.

What do you think I will do the next time I'm invited to join a class action? Meanwhile, COMCAST is pushing their broadband solution very hard.

SOLUTION: Call SBC and ream them out very hard. Tell them to turn on your port 25 until such time as they can show you a complaint from someone that you SPAMmed. Let them know how utterly unacceptable it is for them to fool with your connection. Join the next class-action lawsuit and soak SBC down. Switch to COMCAST broadband, if you like.

I don't like SPAM,but I'm not afraid of it. I use Eudora, which deals with whatever junk Mochamail doesn't catch. Of course, I use Macintosh. Between the two, of course, I just don't have to worry about Outlook address book virus-SPAM going out from *my* machine.

If you like, you may write to me at:

xiong@mochamail.com



[ Reply to This | # ]
Fix an SBC Yahoo outgoing email issue with .Mac
Authored by: cujo on Mar 02, '05 08:17:45AM

You should be able to log in to your account via sbc.yahoo.dsl.

From there you can get support via some online forms. All I had to do was "opt-out". Took less than 24 hours to get it all done.

Someone should also post this tip in reference to using their own computer as a SMTP server. That is how I encountered the problem. I use my laptop to send mail as I go through several networks in any given day. Anyway, it took me a while to figure out that SBC had blocked this port.



[ Reply to This | # ]
Fix an SBC Yahoo outgoing email issue with .Mac
Authored by: jcolbyk on Jul 06, '05 05:36:51AM

While SBC's official line about this might not seem correct, from an internet standards point of view, SBC is fully correct in steering users away from using port 25 as their outgoing e-mail port and switching to using port 587.

See RFC 2476, http://xml.resource.org/public/rfc/html/rfc2476.html#anchor6



[ Reply to This | # ]