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10.3: Fix broken Panther with Jaguar Install
Excitedly my employer and I waited for Panther to arrive from Apple. Before I undertook to install it on her "mission critical" TiBook 500 (first generation), I played guinea pig and began the upgrade on my Pismo 400. Oddly the trackpad disappeared until a full shutdown and reboot, but after that all seemed well.

Next came the TiBook. I chose to follow the "Upgrade" path rather than "archive and install" mainly because of the several third-party enhancements (ASM, Default Folder X, Window Shade) we'd installed to fill some gaps in Jaguar. After watching the new blue candy cane spin for about two hours, the install was finally over. To my horror after reboot, the Setup Application crashed, followed by the Finder and every other thing I tried to launch. Even a "safe boot" by holding the shift key produced the same results. I suspected some deviant startup app, but without being able to so much as open a Terminal, I was lost. I re-installed, this time selecting "archive and install," but to no avail, the same thing happened.

Out of desperation, I resorted to installing 10.2, opting to archive. Happily after install I was greeted with a fully functional system, with all third party "enhancements" absent from the control panel. Another two hours and she was updated to Panther and all was well. Previous user files were safely archived and easily dragged to her newly created Home directory. So the moral is -- don't throw out your 10.2 CD-ROMs yet, especially if you suspect unruly startup or system enhancements are crashing your Panther fun.

[robg adds: I'll use this hint for a quick comment on my install preferences: If possible, I do an "erase and install" any time I can for a major upgrade like this. Yes, it's substantially more work, and yes, you need to be very careful that you have a complete and functional backup available before proceeding. But in the end, you wind up with a system that's devoid of any carryovers that might cause problems in the new OS. If you have a partitioned drive, this is also substantially easier -- I keep 95% of my apps on an Applications partition, so a major upgrade doesn't mean I also have to reinstall all my apps, too. I just copy over key prefernce folders and reinstall those apps that just insist on living in /Applications, and I'm good to go.]
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10.3: Fix broken Panther with Jaguar | 11 comments | Create New Account
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10.3: Fix broken Panther with Jaguar
Authored by: reichea on Nov 13, '03 02:19:09PM

I would suspect that since Default Folder X was running on the PowerBook, the version was below 1.9, and hence the problems. This is a known issue, fixable by upgrading to version 1.9 or above BEFORE installing Panther.

The author has warnings posted all over his Website regarding this problem.



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10.3: Fix broken Panther with Jaguar
Authored by: JKT on Nov 13, '03 02:49:17PM
I chose to follow the "Upgrade" path rather than "archive and install" mainly because of the several third-party enhancements (ASM, Default Folder X, Window Shade) we'd installed to fill some gaps in Jaguar.
Says it all really - disable all third party hacks/haxies and remove all login items under the Login System Prefs prior to an install if you can only do an upgrade!

---
iMacDV 400MHz, sl DVD-ROM, 10.2.8, 640MB RAM

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Rob's idea of apps in separate partition?
Authored by: Norm Nager on Nov 13, '03 03:50:00PM

Although I did an erase-and-clean install, I now regret that I installed all the applications in the same partition as 10.3 rather than have the wisdom to do what Rob did and install them on another partition. That would make life so much easier the next time one needs to upgrade to another OS version.

Questions:
1. In doing this, does one simply alias the applications installed on the other partition to the 10.3.1 partition's Applications Folder?
2. If one already has installed all one's apps, as I did, can one drag them over to a folder you create on the other partition and alias them back to the 10.3.1 partition?
3. Does the 2nd partition need to also have Panther as its OS? (My 2nd partition, in addition to storing all my photos, music and documents, has OS 9.2.2 for the rare times I need to open up a pre-OS X program)?



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Rob's idea of apps in separate partition?
Authored by: stewby on Nov 14, '03 02:46:44PM

1. You could, but it would exceedingly tedious. A better idea would be to alias the whole thing as a subfolder of /Applications, or just aliasing it as ~/Applications
2. Hopefully, but not necessarily. Most applications should be well behaved enough to move with no problems, but it's possible that some applications will have stored their path and thus not handle the move well.
3. The second partion needn't have any OS at all



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10.3: Fix broken Panther with Jaguar
Authored by: wgscott on Nov 13, '03 05:26:17PM

After 3 successful upgrades, I tried to upgrade my G4 and lost 2 days of my life.

I never succeeded in getting 10.3 to install. Finally, I took my trusty clone of the 10.2.8 system that I had previously prepared with carbon copy cloner on an external drive, booted another machine from that drive, used that G4 to install 10.3, and then cloned back to the refractory machine. Now it works.

Moral: Make a bootable clone backup before you do anything. It can save your neck in many different ways.



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10.3: Fix broken Panther with Jaguar
Authored by: krishna on May 03, '04 05:46:57PM

When you say 'cloned back to the refractory machine' does this mean you were able to upgrade your external clone drive from 10.2.8 to 10.3 (preserving all data on it), and then ccclone that back to your internal system drive, and have it work?



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10.3: Fix broken Panther with Jaguar
Authored by: krishna on May 03, '04 06:13:12PM
To my horror after reboot, the Setup Application crashed, followed by the Finder and every other thing I tried to launch.

This is exactly what happened to me. I believe the only third-party kernel-style extras I was running were tinkertool, autopairs, and ucontrol, and this was an external firewire drive produced previously by carbon copy cloner, and booted just fine when it had 10.2.8 on it. Did your friend have any special third-party stuff installed?

The only Application that seems to be running without problems is Codetek Virtual Desktop (eval version). So I can now switch between two empty desktops, reliably. I can ssh in, and run anything I want from the command line; in fact, I ran 'softwareupdate' from the command line to bring me up to 10.3.3, but no dice; everything's still crashing.

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10.3: Fix broken Panther with Jaguar
Authored by: krishna on May 04, '04 08:16:08PM
I suspected some deviant startup app, but without being able to so much as open a Terminal, I was lost.

After much travail, I came across the brilliant idea of dividing and conquering the problem (especially since I *could* ssh in), and realized something about X upgrades in the future.

I wrote a small script to keep reopening 'system preferences' until it stayed up. I then created a user admin account with *no* customizations in it and logged in with it. This served the purposes of being able to see if the problems were upgrade-related or account-related, and if I had a suspicion of what was wrong with my account, I could sudo over to my account and fix it (like removing some startup items from loginwindow.plist by carefully editing the file, or moving my dotfiles out of the way temporarily, etc) from the working account.

From this, I eventually traced it down to a problem with the Codetek Virtual desktop I was starting on login. Turning this off made everything else work (and in fact, everything else started working just fine from that point on).

I'm familiar with UNIX, but still wary that Apple might circumvent the UNIX model (not maliciously, though) one way or another in MacOSX. As a result, I decided that always having an uncustomized, unused user account (I had it with admin privileges, but that may not be necessary) makes a lot of sense, and can serve as an 'escape hatch' when problems like this come up. Even if the problems show up on the uncustomized account as well, that information will immediately divide the problem between the user customization space and the system space, which can get you to the bottom of things faster.

I'd go so far as to say that creating a fresh, uncustomized user account, should be a mandatory preparatory step during a major upgrade. The account could be deleted after the upgrade for security reasons, if desired. Especially considering how popular the laptops are, and that they only usually have a single user account, this simple step would go a long way towards troubleshooting, even if someone else does your troubleshooting for you.

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10.3: Fix broken Panther with Jaguar
Authored by: krishna on May 08, '04 10:40:52PM
Which I submitted as a hint, posted here.

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10.3: Fix broken Panther with Jaguar
Authored by: hamarkus on May 07, '04 01:25:07PM

Shouldn't an archive and install accomplish something similar to Rob's proposal?



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10.3: Fix broken Panther with Jaguar
Authored by: krishna on May 08, '04 10:36:31PM

Yeah, I'd think so. I'd just doublecheck that when you open an app, that it's opening it from /Applications and not /Previous System/Applications (I do this by typing 'open /Applications/Utilities/terminal.app' instead of doubleclicking or 'open -a terminal.app').



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