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Fix bullet and quote rendering in PDFs from FrameMaker Apps

For a while I have had a problem with bullets appearing as the Yen symbol and quotes not appearing at all, in PDF files generated by FrameMaker when using Arial and Times New Roman fonts. Going by the posts to the adobe.framemaker newsgroup, others have also, but there has been no definitive cause and the suggested workarounds weren't necessarily practical.

The short story is that I found I could fix the problem by moving the following fonts out of the "/System Folder/Fonts" directory.

ArialBolItaMT EuroMonBolIta EuroSanIta EuroSerReg ArialBolMT EuroMonIta EuroSanReg TimesNewRomPSBolItaMT ArialItaMT EuroMonReg EuroSerBol TimesNewRomPSBolMT ArialMT EuroSanBol EuroSerBolIta TimesNewRomPSItaMT EuroMonBol EuroSanBolIta EuroSerIta TimesNewRomPSMT

I am not sure which application put them there, possibly the ATM software, but the Arial and Times New Roman versions of these files seemed to get used in preference to the defaults for these fonts. The problem is these extra versions stuff up the PDF file rendering.

Does anyone know more about the origin of these font files? I know they got put there later as I was the owner and not "root:wheel" like the other fonts.

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Fix bullet and quote rendering in PDFs from FrameMaker
Authored by: stefanr on Sep 05, '03 12:10:31PM

I noticed a similar problem with quotes when translating a postscript document to a PDF with the ps2pdf converter from all the LaTeX distributions I tried.

Maybe these are related. I posted the bug in the ghostscript bug report (you can get the details here:

It seems this is a problem with a Microsoft font that do not behave correctly for the pdf interpreter. The only application I know that can correctly convert files to PDF is Adobe Acrobat.

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Fix bullet and quote rendering in PDFs from FrameMaker
Authored by: david-bo on Sep 05, '03 04:47:41PM

Framemaker uses Distiller for its pdf-creation so using Acrobat is no workaround for this situation. However, I use FM6 and I have never seen this issue.


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Fix bullet and quote rendering in PDFs from FrameMaker
Authored by: gtomorrow on Sep 06, '03 04:36:13AM

Same problem, different software. I'm beginning to think that Microsoft Core Web Fonts (Arial, Times New Roman, etc.) map to Windows font mapping. Not only do I get the Yen symbol instead of a bullet, but all accented european characters just don't print, as well as "€". I was laying blame on the RIP server we use (a Win2k box), but after reading this thread...well, I'm not so sure.

Surely some genius out there can shed some light on this problem.

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Fix bullet and quote rendering in PDFs from FrameMaker
Authored by: crunchyfrog on Sep 06, '03 10:17:25PM

This is a old problem that has plagued Classic for some time. The versions of Arial and Times New Roman (MSFonts) that were installed by just about anything but espicially IE were faulty in that they used different character mapping to every other mac font. As postscript level 3 printers became available, uses started noticing that bullet points would print as Yen symbols and quotes woudl not print at all. Microsoft did "fix" this problem by making updated versions available on their website (since removed I think) - btw they didn't fix the character encoding, they just changed the internal font name which forced the font to be downloaded to the printer (or RIP which is all that distiller is) instead of using the font that is already installed in the RIP

If you "get Info" on the font files Arial should be version 2.9 and Time New Roman 2.91 - these fonts will be in the Classic System Folder.

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Fix bullet and quote rendering in PDFs from FrameMaker
Authored by: jared thornton on Nov 23, '03 09:45:58AM

we have experienced this problem. we go postscript with cuctomer files. genarally created on the pc. we then rip them from mac. we have found that by replacing the customer's new times roman with new times romanps, the problems are eliminated. jared

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Fix bullet and quote rendering in PDFs from FrameMaker
Authored by: david-bo on Sep 05, '03 02:47:15PM

Why is this a Mac OS X hint?

Framemaker is STILL not a native Mac OS X-app:-( Any rumours on this issue?


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Here's a hint...
Authored by: jscotta on Sep 05, '03 05:29:51PM

...check in with an archeologist. My belief, after many months on this issue, is that FrameMaker is a dead product that Adobe, for some reason, refuses to call dead. There is still nothing to replace it (ID sucks compared to Frame for what Frame is used for). Adobe is saying nothing.

Unfortunately, all of my efforts to encourage others to write a replacement for FrameMaker have come to naught. It seems that everyone wants to write either a replacement for TextEdit or Microsoft Word. Too bad for those of us that made use of the excellent program.

Windows because I have to. OS X because I want to.

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Authored by: theilgaard on Sep 07, '03 07:44:44AM

I have got the same explanation as crunchyfrog, however I can add a little to the workaround.

The problem only occours on printers that has Arial and Times New Roman built in. If you printer does not have these fonts, they will be downloaded to the printer when printing, and you will not see the problem.


1. Get the new versions of the fonts, as describet by crunchyfrog.

2. Get the Agfa versions that is delivered with other laser printers (such as Lexmark).

3. Change the ppd-file for your printer to not contain a description of Arial and Times New Roman. Typically 2 lines of printer font descriptions should be removed.

My guess about the problem showing up in a FrameMaker job, must be because this person does not use the FrameMakerPDFWriter printer (which uses the Acrobat Destiller ppd, that does not have Arial and Times New Roman described).

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