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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics System
If you've been reading Macintouch or MacFixIt, you're probably aware that some people have been experiencing kernel panics under 10.2.5 that have been traced back to something in the USB drivers. I was one of those people -- ever since upgrading to 10.2.5, my desktop machine would kernel panic coming out of sleep mode if it had been sleeping for 30 minutes or more.

My desktop Mac has a fair amount of USB stuff connected to it, routed through an Asante four-port USB hub. The recent acquisition of a card reader meant that I was out of hub space, so the combination of not enough USB ports and the constant kernel panics finally drove me to replace the hub.

After reading Macintouch and other sites, it seemed that many people with D-Link hubs weren't experiencing any issues with 10.2.5, so that's what I was after. After a brief search, I found the DSB-H7 7-port USB hub for about US $30 at a local computer store, took it home, and plugged it in. As expected, it worked fine ... but the real test would come after putting the machine to sleep. Wth some trepidation, I closed all my open applications and put the Mac to sleep and left it alone for a couple of hours. When I returned, it woke up just fine. Same thing happened overnight last night, so I think I've eliminated the source of my kernel panics (I've had more of them in the last couple weeks than I had in the last two plus years!).

The rumor mill has it that 10.2.6 will be out very shortly and will address the USB panic issue (among others, I'm sure). But since I needed the hub space anyway, the panics were just an added incentive to get the hub replaced ASAP, 10.2.6 not withstanding...
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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: jonahlee on Apr 25, '03 11:45:07AM

I got the USB Kernel Panics as well with 2 Belkin Hubs attached to my computer. I tried removing one, to no avail, so I had to remove both hubs to be stop the Kernel panics. And mine were not limited to waking up from sleep. Mine seems to happen more often than that, but quickly stopped with removal of these hubs. Now I have had problems in the past with these hubs. I often must pull the cable and re-insert it to get my Palm pilot to sync. You would think that the hubs that Apple sells in the Apple store would work better than this!

---
- Jonah Lee



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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: kevinv on Apr 25, '03 01:31:46PM

I have a 7 port Belkin and haven't had any problems with it. But I don't keep it connected a whole lot, since I'm on a laptop it isn't plugged into the hub full time. Not sure I've tested going to sleep with it plugged in, but i have done heavy scanning and printing simultaneously thorough it.



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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: stevetech on Apr 25, '03 02:25:40PM

That is a known issue with the palm sync cable



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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: mkaz on Apr 25, '03 06:55:37PM

I have a Belkin FSU021 4 port USB hub and I haven't experienced a single
kernel panic (knock on wood). It is full with iSub, printer, scanner, etc.



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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: olwylee on Apr 26, '03 05:02:44PM

This is actually interesting, until reading through this thread I wasn't even aware this problem existed. I have a three year old Keyspan powered four port hub connected to a G3 700 iMac. I have an HP PSC 750, HP 5300c flatbed, VST USB Zip and a Kritter cam connected through it. I then have a Logitech 2X optical mouse on one side of the keyboard and a Wacom Graphire Tablet on the other side of the keyboard. The only problem I did come across which may be related to this issue was when I was doing a network file transfer. I was transferring 6 gigs of files to this computer from my powerbook (G4 867), during the transfer I was unable to use the Logitech mouse because the curser just randomly jumped around the screen everytime I tried to use it, but it never caused a kernel panic and oddly enough I was still able to use the Wacom mouse on the tablet in its place.

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.



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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: feste on Apr 25, '03 12:10:58PM

USB has been OS X's Achilles heel since day one. It's always
been the case since 10.1 that most kernel panics (even when
they're rare) are caused by USB code. And on a more mundane
level, even USB printing has minor glitches that you just have to
get used to. (Printer stops being recognized, until you unplug
the cable and plug it back in; etc.) Anyone have any idea why?
What's so hard about coding USB that causes all these problems?



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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: satin on Apr 25, '03 12:51:45PM

I've got a new 17" PowerBook and am using a Belkin USB hub with all 4 ports being used. I've updated to 10.2.5 and so far, no problems, especially kernel panics, at all.

I never shut the laptop off. I always wake it up from sleep and have never had a kernel panic.

The only problem I've had is thinking I screwed something up while starting EverQuest Beta, but it wasn't my machine... game server was down.

See ya...



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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: stealth_rocket on Apr 25, '03 12:54:16PM

I have a Lacie Electron 22 monitor with built in USB hub and I've been getting the kernel panic from sleep as well since 10.2.5. I also use a Logitech wireless Mx700 mouse and every so often the OS stops recognizing mouse click so I have to unplug/plug it in to get it working again.



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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: d00d on Apr 25, '03 12:57:11PM

I'm currently using two GE 4-port USB hubs on my MDD
Powermac (10.2.5) and I haven't had any problems. I got them
at Target for like $25.



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Apple's not to blame this time (at least not quite)
Authored by: sebastienb on Apr 25, '03 01:43:47PM
The fact is that the real problem is in the way the device(s) don't follow the USB specs, and that causes the problem. Granted, the computer shouldn't actually crash because of it (maybe just refuse to see the device, or something), but at least the OS is doing its job properly (well, kinda I guess :).

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Apple's not to blame this time (at least not quite)
Authored by: stephenju on Apr 26, '03 06:06:04PM

Why is it so difficult to admit that Apple screwed up? The same
devices WORKED before updating 10.2.5.



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Apple's not to blame this time (at least not quite)
Authored by: imageworx on Apr 26, '03 11:15:23PM

No, the USB vendor isn't up to snuff and Apple may have stuck to the core
code. Many USB vendors are just slapping an extra product logo on a PC
product to get more market. So this break mean some of you were lucky and
the rest have been "getting what they paid for".

If you look at Keyspan products, their USB hubs and PCI card have been rock
solid. And keyspan works very close with Apple to make it so.

Ok, so I can agree Apple does do some assbackward things (10.2.4 breaking
internal 3rd party DVD-R) but the clue there is "3rd party". But they fixed it
on the 10.2.5.

We can also look at the tension between Adaptec SCSI cards, Apple and
ATTO. I've wasted much money on Adaptec 2940 series, only to have to get
a 29160 card that was still a disappointment. yet a ATTO UL4S has been
flawless from the get go. Why? Because ATTO works in interest with Apple.

"A good dog, gets the table scraps"



---
To BeOS or Not to BeOS



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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: astrodawg on Apr 25, '03 02:17:20PM

I have a scanner, printer, keyboard, wireless trackball, mouse,
digital camera, soundsticks, isub and two 4-port hubs attached to
my G4. After updating to 10.2.5, I had a problem with my
scanner... as soon as it started to scan something, I would get a
guaranteed kernal panic. After I ran the permissions fix in Disk
Utility, my USB problems disappeared - everything works fine,
kernal panic disappeared.



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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: zookie on Apr 25, '03 02:58:38PM

I had USB hub-related kernel panic, too.

Have Belkin 7-port USB (4 tier thingy) connected to PB (Gigabit edition).

10.2.5 ran fine for about 6 days despite many articles I had read about kernel panic and USB. It finally happened to me.

I had unplugged a peripheral from the hub then proceed to do my usual stuff on PB, it started to act weird then went into kernel panic. First thing that came to mind was the hub issue, so unplugged it. It ran fine for 24 hours, so plugged it back in. It runs fine ever since.

What I do is, before I unplug something from hub, I unplug the hub from PB first. I didn't want to further experiment with unplugging/plugging from hub without first unplugging the hub especially after the Beachball incident.

Zookie

Canoscan LiDe 30, Apple keyboard, Logitech MX700, Logitech Quick Cam Pro 3000, Handspring Platinium USB cradle, Pony SmartMedia reader, and HP deskjet 940cvr are all currently plugged into hub.



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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: pukupi on Apr 25, '03 08:26:22PM

We have had USB-related kernal panics with a USB MO drive (no hub). Turn off the drive: no more kernal panics.



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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: dwchin on Apr 26, '03 02:34:40AM

Kensington's MouseWorks, both versions 2.1 and 2.2, crash with kernel panics. I submitted a bug report to Kensington.



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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: oculos on Apr 26, '03 01:04:22PM

There's this issue, dunno if hardware related or not, about
airport killing usb ports when uploading stuff through that
wireless card. It used to generate kernel panics when
replugging the killed devices, but now it doesn't happen
anymore under 10.2.x.



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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: iloatheny on Apr 26, '03 09:34:59PM

Since some point after 10.2, my kernel panics have stopped, but
there remains one issue of a "dead wakeup" when unplugging
usb devices very shortly after the computer has been put to
sleep. Therefore I must unplug USB devices before I close the lid
of my Powerbook; a highly annoying factor.

Since the behaviour only happens sporadically (typically after 10
- 15 days of uptime, when I am in a hurry and forget to unplug
before closing the lid), I have not isolated it to its exact cause,
but it seems mouse-related kext's such as the ones that come
with USB Overdrive of the Logitech mouse drivers are the
culprit.



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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: el bid on Apr 27, '03 08:30:35AM

Rotten problem. And as an old UNIX hand, I like a kernel panic that
_looks_ like a kernel panic, not like some arbitrary GUI app that's
suddenly decided to stop the show... :-( At least it might
_announce_ that it's a kernel panic.

I tried replacing IOUSBFamily.kext from an earlier version of the OS
that demonstrably doesn't have this problem, but that doesn't seem
to solve it.

My current strategy (which is probably working if I manage to post
this) is to put the offending hub on the far side of a non-offending
hub -- in this case the LCD monitor that came with the G4.

--
el bid


---
--
el bid



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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: Myrddin on Apr 27, '03 12:02:00PM

For some reason I have only had 1 kernal panic with USB, and that was printing. I'm lucky so far, I've even pushed the envelope with my 1Ghz MDD 2003 (768M, 3 HD, and Macally USB 2 PCI card installed):

Non Apple Keyboard (on machine USB bus)
Non Apple cordless mouse (on machine USB bus)
Audio breakout box w/USB pass through hub (on USB 2 card)
Generic USB 2.0 hub (on USB 2 card)
Scanner (on USB 2.0 hub)
Game controller (on USB 2.0 hub)
Printer (on USB 2.0 hub)
Hot Sync (on USB 2.0 hub)

The latest Macally drivers did not want to support my attached USB 2 hub so I installed Orange Micro's 3.1 drivers and all is well for now.

My FireWire is kind of pooched for the moment though... but that is how it is with Apple OS' as of late, fix one thing and break another.



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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: Arrakis on Apr 28, '03 10:12:29AM

Since 10.2.5, each time I wake my PbTi667 from sleep I get
something that look like a hardware problem: the hard drive
make a lot of scarry clicking noises and I get the spinning ball
each time I try to access something on the hard drive.

I called Apple a week ago and they had me reset in Open
Firmware mode as well as reset the PRAM. I tried the sleep
process again and... no more problems. Until the next morning!

I called them again this morning and this time, they made me
press the reset button (at the back of the machine near the
modem port) for 10 sec while the computer was off. Everything
seams to work fine now, but I believe that the problem only
comes out after a few hours of sleep. I guess I'm gonna find out
soon.

Ti667 - Appl keyboard - Microsoft mouse - Belkin Omniview -
external monitor



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Of 10.2.5 and USB-related kernel panics
Authored by: michaelkvance on Apr 28, '03 02:15:38PM
Ignore, testing Safari bug with GeekLog.

m.

---
"Bought on stolen wine, oh a nod was the first step.
You knew very well, what was coming next."
-- The Smiths, I Don't Owe You Anything

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